diff --git a/common/src/app/common/types/shape/layout.cljc b/common/src/app/common/types/shape/layout.cljc
index 215d9709cf..c5eb7d6ccc 100644
--- a/common/src/app/common/types/shape/layout.cljc
+++ b/common/src/app/common/types/shape/layout.cljc
@@ -328,24 +328,21 @@
 
 (defn paddings
   [{:keys [layout-padding-type layout-padding]}]
-  (let [{pad-top :p1 pad-right :p2 pad-bottom :p3 pad-left :p4} layout-padding]
+  (let [{pad-top :p1 pad-right :p2 pad-bottom :p3 pad-left :p4
+         :or {pad-top 0 pad-right 0 pad-bottom 0 pad-left 0}} layout-padding]
     (if (= :simple layout-padding-type)
       [pad-top pad-right pad-top pad-right]
       [pad-top pad-right pad-bottom pad-left])))
 
 (defn h-padding
-  [{:keys [layout-padding-type layout-padding]}]
-  (let [{pad-right :p2 pad-left :p4} layout-padding]
-    (if (= :simple layout-padding-type)
-      (+ pad-right pad-right)
-      (+ pad-right pad-left))))
+  [shape]
+  (let [[_ right _ left] (paddings shape)]
+    (+ right left)))
 
 (defn v-padding
-  [{:keys [layout-padding-type layout-padding]}]
-  (let [{pad-top :p1 pad-bottom :p3} layout-padding]
-    (if (= :simple layout-padding-type)
-      (+ pad-top pad-top)
-      (+ pad-top pad-bottom))))
+  [shape]
+  (let [[top _ bottom _] (paddings shape)]
+    (+ top bottom)))
 
 (defn padding-type-for
   "`:simple` when top≈bottom and left≈right, `:multiple` otherwise (nil sides = 0)."
diff --git a/common/test/common_tests/geom_bounds_layout_nil_test.cljc b/common/test/common_tests/geom_bounds_layout_nil_test.cljc
index dda9fa957f..a0b5d728a1 100644
--- a/common/test/common_tests/geom_bounds_layout_nil_test.cljc
+++ b/common/test/common_tests/geom_bounds_layout_nil_test.cljc
@@ -11,7 +11,9 @@
    [app.common.geom.point :as gpt]
    [app.common.geom.rect :as grc]
    [app.common.geom.shapes.flex-layout.bounds :as fb]
+   [app.common.geom.shapes.flex-layout.layout-data :as fld]
    [app.common.geom.shapes.grid-layout.bounds :as gb]
+   [app.common.geom.shapes.grid-layout.layout-data :as gld]
    [app.common.geom.shapes.min-size-layout :as msl]
    [app.common.types.shape :as cts]
    [app.common.types.shape.layout :as ctl]
@@ -89,6 +91,27 @@
       (apply dissoc full exclude-ids)
       full)))
 
+(t/deftest layout-calculation-without-optional-padding
+  (doseq [layout-type [:flex :grid]
+          padding-type [nil :simple :multiple]]
+    (let [parent-id (uuid/next)
+          child-id  (uuid/next)
+          child     (make-rect child-id 10 10 50 50)
+          parent    (cond-> (dissoc (case layout-type
+                                      :flex (make-flex-frame parent-id [child-id])
+                                      :grid (make-grid-frame parent-id [child-id]))
+                                    :layout-padding :layout-padding-type)
+                      padding-type (assoc :layout-padding-type padding-type))
+          objects   (make-objects [parent child])
+          bounds    (bounds-map-from-objects objects)
+          calculate (case layout-type :flex fld/calc-layout-data :grid gld/calc-layout-data)
+          explicit  (assoc parent :layout-padding {:p1 0 :p2 0 :p3 0 :p4 0})]
+      (t/is (cts/valid-shape? parent))
+      (t/is (= (calculate explicit (:points parent) [[(:points child) child]] bounds
+                          (assoc objects parent-id explicit))
+               (calculate parent (:points parent) [[(:points child) child]] bounds objects))
+            (str "Absent padding must keep " layout-type " layout geometry")))))
+
 ;; ---- Tests for flex layout bounds with nil bounds ----
 
 (t/deftest layout-content-points-with-missing-parent-bounds
diff --git a/common/test/common_tests/types/shape_layout_test.cljc b/common/test/common_tests/types/shape_layout_test.cljc
index d32ea5a6b6..4ec0ef268b 100644
--- a/common/test/common_tests/types/shape_layout_test.cljc
+++ b/common/test/common_tests/types/shape_layout_test.cljc
@@ -354,6 +354,16 @@
                                  :layout-padding {:p1 8 :p2 10 :p3 99 :p4 99})]
       (t/is (= 16 (layout/v-padding shape))))))
 
+(t/deftest absent-layout-padding-means-zero
+  (doseq [layout-type [:flex :grid]
+          padding-type [nil :simple :multiple]]
+    (let [shape (cond-> (make-frame :layout layout-type)
+                  padding-type (assoc :layout-padding-type padding-type))]
+      (t/is (cts/valid-shape? shape) "Padding is optional in stored shapes")
+      (t/is (= [0 0 0 0] (layout/paddings shape)))
+      (t/is (zero? (layout/h-padding shape)))
+      (t/is (zero? (layout/v-padding shape))))))
+
 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
 ;; child-min/max-width/height
 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;